Putting 120vAC in my truck with an inverter.

[Jon_k]

(This post has been edited quite a bit to give more of a summary than my original questions and content here)

I heard about Rhino's inverter project on overclockers.com and googled some and found http://www.cryo-laboratory.com/forum...c7484#img_5028 his original thread on these forums and decided to do the same project in his footsteps for my own truck.

Unlike Rhino, I'm not going to put the inverter in the hood, but rather in the cabin itself. This is for the sake of protection from moisture, dirt, and everything else the engine compartment would present to the inverter. The only thing it lacks is protection from the Texas heat.

The inverter will be behind the bench seat for the truck mounted on the back wall of the cabin. I am going to dremel a hole in the back which will create a hole between the cabin/bed of the truck and this is how I plan to get the 12v wiring in to the cabin. All outside exposed wiring will be protected by plastic outdoor conduit. I estimate the wiring from the battery to the inverter can be up to 7-10 feet. The wiring for the battery/inverter connection will be 3-4 AWG wire suggested, but I could probably go as high as 8AWG safely.

I'll put a 75amp inline fuse within a foot of the battery connetcion for overload and saftey. The inverter should come with one, but why not be safe and be redundant?

[Jon_k]

Here's a picture illustrating the inverters placement behind the back seat. [EDIT] I'm going to be using a different inverter I can mount with screws to the back; and the inverter is going to go on the drivers side instead of the passanger side as illustrated.


The outlets, LED's and on/off switch are going to go on the dash. The area is a convienent location for just such a use. (The image shown isn't a finished product, it's a peice of crap representation to give you an idea. No, the outlets won't be that close together in the finished product.)

[rhino56]

Hi Jon_k welcome the forums

you cant use the 600V wire, it would melt probably. lol

you will need to use a 2 awg quality wire with a 75 amp fuse as close as you can get it to the battery.

50 may do but if you get a direct short it will blow a 75 amp pretty quick also. that way it wont blow unless its a direct short.


the ground you can terminate as close as possible to the inverter.
just drill a hole and grind off some paint to get to the metal on the body if you cant find a bolt close by. try to stay no longer then 18 inchs.

so you dont need to run the ground all the way to the battery.
and you dont need to ground the battery if it has a decent ground wire running to the body from the battery.


for the 110 volt plugs up in the dash i would use a flexable 12 gauge wire found in most automotive or stereo stores.

solder your connections so they dont come off ever and seal them so you will be sure they never groun on the dash metal.
hard telling what all 110 volts will do to a 12 volt system, but i promise it wont be good.
the liquid electrical tape works well but be patient and use plenty of coats of it. just look carefully and double, triple check all connections beofre applying power to it.
you could use the 600 volt wire for the plugs in your dash but it would be hard to work with.

and make sure you dont ground the 110 side of the inverter into the 12volt system, its not the same.

you can get a one way electrical switch which will only allow electricity yto travel one way and not back, however the more complex you make it the more things to go wrong.
i let my inverter sit for 2 months without starting my truck and had no problems.
what i would suggest as a cheaper route would be a smaller pulley on the alternator.
easy swap and gets you more charging power, you should be fine with one battery with that inverter.
the inverter has a low voltage cut off anyways so it will shut itself off before your battery gets so low you cant start your truck, assuming it fires up ok and doesnt need to be cranked over 100 times.

let me know if i can answer any other questions, and post pics of your project as you progress.
very cool, i love my 110volts in my truck

[Jon_k]

you will need to use a 2 awg quality wire with a 75 amp fuse as close as you can get it to the battery.

The book says use #12AWG wire if the power source connection is 4 ft or less. For longer cable lengths use #8 AWG wire for lengths to 10 feet. It says in either case, protect the positive wire from shorts by putting a 50-75 amp fuse/breaker as close as possible to the battery terminal.

I think I'll go by the guides AWG suggestions, I'll be using the #8 AWG "for lengths up to 10ft" because my stretch is probably going to run 7-9ft from the battery to the inverter.

You were right on target for the 75 amp fuse. I'll go for the 75 amp, as long as you have a fuse that's not rated (TOO) high, it should be safe.

How can I put a fuse in the circuit? I'd say cut half a foot of cable for battery to fuse, and then the rest of the cable can go from fuse to the inverter. How will I secure the fuse to the cable though? I was thinking of using one of those "car fuses" type of fuse, but I'd need a socket or something to insert the fuse in to (or I could solder it to the wire, perhaps)

Also, is the larger the AWGuage the thinner the wire gets? E.G. Would 0AWG be the thickest cable you could get?

[EDIT] Returned the inverter and Friday I'll get one that has screw hole mounts to mount to the metal of the truck.[/EDIT]
Original txt: I also think I'll return the inverter I have if I can find one that has "screw mounts" cause, after all, I'd like to be able to drill a hole and mount it to the metal of the truck so it doesn't slide around. (This one doesn't have holes or a way to mount it, it has this handle thing on it. It was designed for portable use I believe, and I don't want to try and retro fit it to be mountable)

As for the cabling, yeah, I'll be getting 8AWG, and I may (or may not) use the 600v cable to run the 110 from the inverter to the dash. Perhaps I could use a heavy duty extension cord or something instead.

Anyways,
Thanks!
--
Jon

[rhino56]

Originally Posted by Jon_k

The book says use #12AWG wire if the power source connection is 4 ft or less. For longer cable lengths use #8 AWG wire for lengths to 10 feet. It says in either case, protect the positive wire from shorts by putting a 50-75 amp fuse/breaker as close as possible to the battery terminal.

I think I'll go by the guides AWG suggestions, I'll be using the #8 AWG "for lengths up to 10ft" because my stretch is probably going to run 7-9ft from the battery to the inverter.

You were right on target for the 75 amp fuse. I'll go for the 75 amp, as long as you have a fuse that's not rated (TOO) high, it should be safe.

How can I put a fuse in the circuit? I'd say cut half a foot of cable for battery to fuse, and then the rest of the cable can go from fuse to the inverter. How will I secure the fuse to the cable though? I was thinking of using one of those "car fuses" type of fuse, but I'd need a socket or something to insert the fuse in to (or I could solder it to the wire, perhaps)

Also, is the larger the AWGuage the thinner the wire gets? E.G. Would 0AWG be the thickest cable you could get?

I also think I'll return the inverter I have if I can find one that has "screw mounts" cause, after all, I'd like to be able to drill a hole and mount it to the metal of the truck so it doesn't slide around. (This one doesn't have holes or a way to mount it, it has this handle thing on it. It was designed for portable use I believe, and I don't want to try and retro fit it to be mountable)

As for the cabling, yeah, I'll be getting 8AWG, and I may (or may not) use the 600v cable to run the 110 from the inverter to the dash. Perhaps I could use a heavy duty extension cord or something instead.

Anyways,
Thanks!
--
Jon

14 awg thinner
12 awg thicker
2 awg very thick
0 awg thickest
00awg thicker than thickest
000awg fat as a python
yeah i was just sayiong use the 2 awg to be the safest. with 12 volts the amps are always really high. the thicker the wire the less resistance you'll have.

resistance =heat

i would still recommend going above what they recommend anyways, like a 4awg so if you ever decide to get a larger unit you wont have to upgrade the wire. 4 awg isnt real thick at all, and it will also help the amount of power the inverter receives.

a distribution block is a nice way to go for a fuse, remember youll be using high amp and dont want to have a weak connection that will cause resistance.

here is one on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ory=50550&rd=1
the extension cord idea is perfect for the plugs, it gives a double sheathing protection and very flexible to work with.
i wish i would have thought of that at the time.

if you do mount it on the floor keep the carpet clean so debris doesnt go inside the unit, grass clippings, french fries, jewelry.

sounds like you got a great plan

[Mark620]

Just becareful of extension cords...
some have a very thin wire(small awg)
I have seen 100 ft extension cords labled as heavy duty rated for
15 amps and the wire is only 18AWG...
even on AC there is voltage loss and heat generated.

(yes, I know, you will not use the extension cord for the DC supply...)

[Jon_k]

Originally Posted by Mark620

Just becareful of extension cords...
some have a very thin wire(small awg)
I have seen 100 ft extension cords labled as heavy duty rated for
15 amps and the wire is only 18AWG...
even on AC there is voltage loss and heat generated.

So what safe AWG do you suggest I use for the wiring that runs the
110vAC from the inverter to dash?

I have to options for running the 110vAC from the inverter to the dash.
Since I'll be running the inverter from the back of the cabin behind the
bench seat -- I'll have to get it to the front of the cabin where the dash is
somehow. I can only see 3 options to do this:

NOTE: These options aren't going to apply to the 12vDC cable; I'm going
to run that on the underbelly of the truck in weatherproof heavy duty
insulated plastic conduit. These options only apply for me getting the
110vAC line from the back of the cabin to the dash.

* 1) Run the 110vAC line from the back of the cabin to the where the dash
is located under the carpet. I could lift the carpet up and put the wiring
under it. This would be the most simple, but the most questionable in fire
saftey. I don't know how much the cable could heat up and risk a fire
being under the carpet. That's why I asked what AWG I should use for this
wire.

* 2) Run it along the underbelly of the truck the same way I'll run the
12vDC. Have it exit the back of the cabin through a dremeled hole, and
run through plastic conduit on the underbelly and then enter in the front
by the gas/break pedals.

* 3.) Somehow run it along the cieling, but I don't think this would be easy
the way my truck is made, and it could turn out to look ugly if anything
shows.

Which option do you think is best safest, and most of all, what AWG should
the 110vAC wiring be?



I mentioned conduit for protection. It's some heavy duty plastic outdoor
conduit used conditions where wiring will be exposed to weather. It's
completley water proof plastic conduit. Any wiring that I plan to run on the
underbelly of the truck I will use this conduit to keep water/dirt away from
the wiring. This conduit will be used mostly for the 12vDC from the
battery to the cabin for the inverter. However, it must also be used if I run
110vAC under the cabin as well.

Here's what the conduit looks like. It's very stiff, and not easy to bend. I'll
secure it to the vehicle with tie wraps. I'm figuring applying 2 tie wraps
every 2-3 feet to keep the conduit secured to the underbelly of the
vehicle. I will avoid routing the conduit near any mechanical locations such as the drive train where the conduit could be wore down or damaged.


Summary for items I need to buy thus far:
* Screws/nuts to bolt inverter to the back of cabin
* Inverter (Took the old one back so I can get one that has mounting holes)
* BATTERY TO INVERTER (3-4 AWG wire, at most 8 AWG) to run between
battery and inverter. (Manual for old inverter suggested 8AWG for runs to
10ft. ;; 12AWG for 4 feet or less. I'll be safe and aim for 3-4 AWG wire.)
* 75 Amp fuse and fuse fuse distribution block thing. I'll add the fuse
within a foot or less of the battery on the + (positive) line.
* INVERTER TO OUTLET (110vAC) ????? AWG for the wiring taking 110vAC
from the inverter to dash (this run of cable could be up to 10-12 feet from
the bench seat to the dash.)
* Heavy duty large tie wraps for conduit securing on underbelly
* Shrink wrap to cover all connections.

I plan to take plenty of pictures during the assembly and perhaps I'll
create an article of how-to so an admin can post it on the sites homepage under howto.

[Mark620]

I would keep the wires in the cab if possible.
Find the OEM wiring and follow that....

Use a 14 or 16 AWG wire for the AC and be sure it has a flexible covering.

[rhino56]

i agree that a 14 awg would be fine for the inside of the cab, an extension cord would be fine under the carpet as long as its not going to be cut or against any sharp edges.

what kind of truck?

also one thing when you pick the location of the plugs try to stay away from underneath drink holders

sounds good and keep us updated as to your progress

[waynejkruse10]

lol, this is a noob question, what is an inverter and what does it do?