Putting 120vAC in my truck with an inverter. - Page 3

Jon_k · 07-23-2005, 11:34 AM

I got some cables. I purchased 2 sets of 6 guage battery jumper cable (though one should be enough because it's long) I'll need to cut one end of the jumper cable off to add washers which can make the connection to the inverter. The other end I might remove to put the clamps on that came with the inverter (the clamps are smaller and probably fit more smug)

For the 120vAC connections I'll make a plug in the line that will sit up in the dash so a repair man or somebody can "unplug" the 120vAC from the dash board making it safe to remove the dash without worries of having current running through it (I'll just use a normal extension cord plug, there will be pictures when I do this project)

I need a soldering gun. I have a soldering pencil, but it's only 60W and it's not going to be enough to heat up the battery cables to make the solder flux. I'll definitely need to buy one hopefully they aren't too expensive. (I could drip the solder around the cable, but if you don't heat the wire up directly, it won't make a good connection/flux/flow)

Here's a picture of the cables. The yellow extension power cord carries a full 12 amps it says, hopefully my inverter won't put more than 12A out on the 120vAC line. (The specs never mention output amperage)

Mark620 · 07-23-2005, 04:33 PM

dont forget, you only need one cable from the battery.
ground the inverter to the frame/body of the truck.

hpntct · 07-24-2005, 09:29 AM

Sorry everyone, I've been really lazy to log online ever since I lost my ADSL internet connection.

Anyhow, if you are using a 75A fuse for the battery connection, then I figure your inverter input power to be 75A x 12V = 900W maximum. Multiply that by the inverter efficiency say .8 would give you an output power of 720W. Divide that by 115V would yield about 6.3A on the output maximum. AWG#18 is safe up to 15A non continuous load (or 12A continuous). So to be on the safe side, I'd just use AWG#16 (that's pretty much your normal extension cord type wire). Even if the inverter is 100% efficient, (900W) you'll only have a maximum of 8A on the output. As for the input connection, you can always put two wire in parallel for the + and - lines. That will be better than using really large wire if your lengths are quite long. It's best to keep the wire as short as possible since there will be a higher voltage drop across the wire when there is high current flow (it may be 12V at the battery terminal but will be lower at the inverter connection if you run too long a wire that's why I suggest using two in parallel for long lengths). 10' should be okay to run AWG#8. From your picture, I see you'll be using AWG#6 for the battery connection so that's more than enough and AWG#12 for the output which is a bit overkill but is fine too.

As for connecting the input cables to the battery, I sure hope you aren't going to solder them to the battery. Use some heavy duty power connectors/lugs. You can solder the output wires with your 60W pencil. That will be fine (might be a bit hard since you have AWG#12).

After reading a bit more on the posts, the inverter is only 400W. Everything seems to be a bit overkill. The maximum surge is 800W (that means you can't sustain 800W for more than a few seconds) and I'm sure the inverter will shut down if you go over 400W for more than a few minutes. As for getting a 75W fuse, man, if something goes wrong, the fuse won't blow and you'll more than likely kill your inverter. Even from what I see in the specs, the inverter only uses 25A fuses (50A total). So if anything goes wrong, the 25A fuses will blow first. You're better off using a 50A fuse to protect your inverter/investment. If you are worried about the fuse blowing at 800W surge, then get a slow blow fuse. It will only break when 50A is being drawn for more than a few seconds.

And to the person with the 2000W TV, time to buy a new one since I'm not sure what kind of outlets you have in your house that can accomodate that (unless you are using 240V line-line).

rhino56 · 07-24-2005, 10:54 AM

i wondered what happened to you hpntct, i had a power outage last night due to a storm, it was nice to have the inverter, i was able to watch tv, make coffee, have lights, a fan. it was kinda fun

it ran the tv,cable box, vcr,dvd and fan for hours. i was so happy that people could finally see that there is a reason for my maddness.

now if they will just listen and get me the dry ice making equipment and other things i claim important lol

Jon_k · 07-25-2005, 10:04 AM

Scratch friday is the big day, I'm doing this slower than planned, but progress is still being made.

The battery cable is done. I need to still put the fuse inline, but thanks to hpntct's advice, I can find a lower amp fuse to put inline.

Pictured is the work I did on the cable. hpntct suggested I use lugs. Here I'm going to use clamps. The way my battery is designed is weird, but the clamps on mine will almost connect without falling off no matter what vibration is given. I'll use ducttape to make sure it doesn't fall off, too.

The other end where the blocks connect to the inverter isn't too good. They almost touch, and if you spin them around on the inverter they can arc when the corners get close enough. This happened, in fact, when I tested to make sure they'd fit. I figured it was just the capacitor in the inverter discharging which isn't bad I don't think.

Question for Rhino; are there any appliances you always keep in your car for your inverter? Was curious. I was thinking about keeping a fan in the floor of the passangers side for extra airflow.

Anyways, here's the picture
The connections were soldered well, I applied the iron to the copper wire until the wire was hot enough to make the solder flux. Seems like you could pull on this connection as much as you want, without it ever coming off. Just finished this about an hour ago.

rhino56 · 07-25-2005, 10:13 AM

yeah the 12 gauge is overkill on the 110 side but if it fits its ok.
test the inverter before you go to anymore work to make sure you didnt zap it. i know they are pretty sensitive.

are you just using the inverter clamps to attach the battery end?

Jon_k · 07-25-2005, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhino56

yeah the 12 gauge is overkill on the 110 side but if it fits its ok.
test the inverter before you go to anymore work to make sure you didnt zap it. i know they are pretty sensitive.

are you just using the inverter clamps to attach the battery end?

Quote:

test the inverter before you go to anymore work to make sure you didnt zap it.

I've already cut the connections on the inverter (did that before I did the battery cable) so I'll have to route the wiring through the dash and then test it really fast before I continue the installation. That'll be just before I finalize everything. I've got all the materials, so there's no reason to stop for now. If the inverter is destroyed, I'll just have to buy a new one or something.

Quote:

are you just using the inverter clamps to attach the battery end

Yeah, I never thought to get official "lugs" to attach to the battery. The connection to the battery will be good though, if I duct tape it around the battery. I don't think it'll be an issue it falling off or anything.

Jon_k · 07-25-2005, 10:37 AM

Here's the work I did on the dash yesterday. I attached the switch to the dash board, it'll fit pretty good. I checked it and the cable with the multimeter continuity tester, and it works!

Now all I need to do with the dash is drill a hole for the LED's and add them as well.

I'm using CAT5 internet cable for the leds/switch. The switch doesn't seem to carry more than 12vDC it seems, since the same wires for the switch also connect to the small fan in the inverter. The LED's should handle the cat5 cable too.

I opted for CAT5 instead of phone cable because phone cable has 4 wires, and cat5 has 8 wires. (The LED's and switch will take up all the cat5 wires, so it's easier to use 1 cat5 then several phone cables)

rhino56 · 07-25-2005, 10:57 AM

nice job on the switch

the squeeze clamps may cause a problem.

you could get a large ring connector like this

Jon_k · 07-25-2005, 11:38 AM

Eh, not the only problem right now. Was working on making the connections to the board of the inverter. We're talking stripping wire that was less than an inch here (yes, they were that cheap, not a bit of slack on the internal wiring) well, I got all but 2 stripped and soldered and the second to the last connection broke off the damn PCB of the thing and it's such a small wire (and the backside of the inverter is so cramped, there's no way I could put a new wire on without being in a factory. It's like the back of a PC Motherboard) I don't have the soldering skills to fix it.

I'll have to buy a new inverter, hell, I can't even tell where on the PCB that wire broke off it's so cramped on the front/back of the PCB. That was a $79 dollar inverter, and I'm going to have to wait a while before I get a new one. This is pathetic. Thanks to modern marvals for the PCB's being smaller than hell these days.

What inverter did you get? Is the insides easy to work with and extend the wiring to the cab of your truck? What model is it etc? I think I'll buy what you did next time. Would they be cheaper online? Who did you buy yours from? BTW Rhino, Why aren't you ever on AIM?

Might be a couple of weeks until I can get a new inverter for the project. Kind of angry at the moment since I had almost everything I needed for the project and now I lack an INVERTER! I was even going to run to home depot and get the ring connectors for the battery after this. AGh!

Wish they made PCB's like they did in the 70's where it was nice and easy to work on them.

07-23-2005, 11:34 AM	#21 (permalink)
Jon_k Civilian Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 13	I got some cables. I purchased 2 sets of 6 guage battery jumper cable (though one should be enough because it's long) I'll need to cut one end of the jumper cable off to add washers which can make the connection to the inverter. The other end I might remove to put the clamps on that came with the inverter (the clamps are smaller and probably fit more smug) For the 120vAC connections I'll make a plug in the line that will sit up in the dash so a repair man or somebody can "unplug" the 120vAC from the dash board making it safe to remove the dash without worries of having current running through it (I'll just use a normal extension cord plug, there will be pictures when I do this project) I need a soldering gun. I have a soldering pencil, but it's only 60W and it's not going to be enough to heat up the battery cables to make the solder flux. I'll definitely need to buy one hopefully they aren't too expensive. (I could drip the solder around the cable, but if you don't heat the wire up directly, it won't make a good connection/flux/flow) Here's a picture of the cables. The yellow extension power cord carries a full 12 amps it says, hopefully my inverter won't put more than 12A out on the 120vAC line. (The specs never mention output amperage)

07-23-2005, 04:33 PM	#22 (permalink)
Mark620 Administrator Colonel Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: TN Posts: 3,047	dont forget, you only need one cable from the battery. ground the inverter to the frame/body of the truck.

07-24-2005, 09:29 AM	#23 (permalink)
hpntct Sergeant Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Vancouver, BC Canada Posts: 382	Sorry everyone, I've been really lazy to log online ever since I lost my ADSL internet connection. Anyhow, if you are using a 75A fuse for the battery connection, then I figure your inverter input power to be 75A x 12V = 900W maximum. Multiply that by the inverter efficiency say .8 would give you an output power of 720W. Divide that by 115V would yield about 6.3A on the output maximum. AWG#18 is safe up to 15A non continuous load (or 12A continuous). So to be on the safe side, I'd just use AWG#16 (that's pretty much your normal extension cord type wire). Even if the inverter is 100% efficient, (900W) you'll only have a maximum of 8A on the output. As for the input connection, you can always put two wire in parallel for the + and - lines. That will be better than using really large wire if your lengths are quite long. It's best to keep the wire as short as possible since there will be a higher voltage drop across the wire when there is high current flow (it may be 12V at the battery terminal but will be lower at the inverter connection if you run too long a wire that's why I suggest using two in parallel for long lengths). 10' should be okay to run AWG#8. From your picture, I see you'll be using AWG#6 for the battery connection so that's more than enough and AWG#12 for the output which is a bit overkill but is fine too. As for connecting the input cables to the battery, I sure hope you aren't going to solder them to the battery. Use some heavy duty power connectors/lugs. You can solder the output wires with your 60W pencil. That will be fine (might be a bit hard since you have AWG#12). After reading a bit more on the posts, the inverter is only 400W. Everything seems to be a bit overkill. The maximum surge is 800W (that means you can't sustain 800W for more than a few seconds) and I'm sure the inverter will shut down if you go over 400W for more than a few minutes. As for getting a 75W fuse, man, if something goes wrong, the fuse won't blow and you'll more than likely kill your inverter. Even from what I see in the specs, the inverter only uses 25A fuses (50A total). So if anything goes wrong, the 25A fuses will blow first. You're better off using a 50A fuse to protect your inverter/investment. If you are worried about the fuse blowing at 800W surge, then get a slow blow fuse. It will only break when 50A is being drawn for more than a few seconds. And to the person with the 2000W TV, time to buy a new one since I'm not sure what kind of outlets you have in your house that can accomodate that (unless you are using 240V line-line).

07-24-2005, 10:54 AM	#24 (permalink)
rhino56 Administrator General Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 6,813	i wondered what happened to you hpntct, i had a power outage last night due to a storm, it was nice to have the inverter, i was able to watch tv, make coffee, have lights, a fan. it was kinda fun it ran the tv,cable box, vcr,dvd and fan for hours. i was so happy that people could finally see that there is a reason for my maddness. now if they will just listen and get me the dry ice making equipment and other things i claim important lol

07-25-2005, 10:04 AM	#25 (permalink)
Jon_k Civilian Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 13	Scratch friday is the big day, I'm doing this slower than planned, but progress is still being made. The battery cable is done. I need to still put the fuse inline, but thanks to hpntct's advice, I can find a lower amp fuse to put inline. Pictured is the work I did on the cable. hpntct suggested I use lugs. Here I'm going to use clamps. The way my battery is designed is weird, but the clamps on mine will almost connect without falling off no matter what vibration is given. I'll use ducttape to make sure it doesn't fall off, too. The other end where the blocks connect to the inverter isn't too good. They almost touch, and if you spin them around on the inverter they can arc when the corners get close enough. This happened, in fact, when I tested to make sure they'd fit. I figured it was just the capacitor in the inverter discharging which isn't bad I don't think. Question for Rhino; are there any appliances you always keep in your car for your inverter? Was curious. I was thinking about keeping a fan in the floor of the passangers side for extra airflow. Anyways, here's the picture The connections were soldered well, I applied the iron to the copper wire until the wire was hot enough to make the solder flux. Seems like you could pull on this connection as much as you want, without it ever coming off. Just finished this about an hour ago.

07-25-2005, 10:13 AM	#26 (permalink)
rhino56 Administrator General Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 6,813	yeah the 12 gauge is overkill on the 110 side but if it fits its ok. test the inverter before you go to anymore work to make sure you didnt zap it. i know they are pretty sensitive. are you just using the inverter clamps to attach the battery end?

07-25-2005, 10:37 AM	#28 (permalink)
Jon_k Civilian Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 13	Here's the work I did on the dash yesterday. I attached the switch to the dash board, it'll fit pretty good. I checked it and the cable with the multimeter continuity tester, and it works! Now all I need to do with the dash is drill a hole for the LED's and add them as well. I'm using CAT5 internet cable for the leds/switch. The switch doesn't seem to carry more than 12vDC it seems, since the same wires for the switch also connect to the small fan in the inverter. The LED's should handle the cat5 cable too. I opted for CAT5 instead of phone cable because phone cable has 4 wires, and cat5 has 8 wires. (The LED's and switch will take up all the cat5 wires, so it's easier to use 1 cat5 then several phone cables)

07-25-2005, 10:57 AM	#29 (permalink)
rhino56 Administrator General Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 6,813	nice job on the switch the squeeze clamps may cause a problem. you could get a large ring connector like this

07-25-2005, 11:38 AM	#30 (permalink)
Jon_k Civilian Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 13	Eh, not the only problem right now. Was working on making the connections to the board of the inverter. We're talking stripping wire that was less than an inch here (yes, they were that cheap, not a bit of slack on the internal wiring) well, I got all but 2 stripped and soldered and the second to the last connection broke off the damn PCB of the thing and it's such a small wire (and the backside of the inverter is so cramped, there's no way I could put a new wire on without being in a factory. It's like the back of a PC Motherboard) I don't have the soldering skills to fix it. I'll have to buy a new inverter, hell, I can't even tell where on the PCB that wire broke off it's so cramped on the front/back of the PCB. That was a $79 dollar inverter, and I'm going to have to wait a while before I get a new one. This is pathetic. Thanks to modern marvals for the PCB's being smaller than hell these days. What inverter did you get? Is the insides easy to work with and extend the wiring to the cab of your truck? What model is it etc? I think I'll buy what you did next time. Would they be cheaper online? Who did you buy yours from? BTW Rhino, Why aren't you ever on AIM? Might be a couple of weeks until I can get a new inverter for the project. Kind of angry at the moment since I had almost everything I needed for the project and now I lack an INVERTER! I was even going to run to home depot and get the ring connectors for the battery after this. AGh! Wish they made PCB's like they did in the 70's where it was nice and easy to work on them.